We were accused of trolling by Patrick Torsney’s legal site SaveUKjustice

25th May 2015 (Whit Bank Holiday)

On 23rd May, we posted the following tweet to @SaveUKjustice  amongst others…

saveUKjusticetweet1

…and received a response two days later from @SaveUKjustice as follows:

saveUKjusticetweet2

If the inconsistency here doesn’t leap out at readers, we’ll explain the situation.  As usual, we’ve posted what is a pretty straightforward tweet holding two links.  These form a juxtaposition between two different groups of persons who are both granted protection (as we all are) under the Human Rights Act.

The first loose and general grouping (although not specified or described here) is that of relatively wealthy persons, often professionals with independent means and access to justice – people like celebrities, high profile politicians or prominent judges and lawyers (the newspaper story here can be accessed by clicking the first link).

The second and probably much larger grouping (again not specified or described) is vulnerable and disabled persons with increasingly limited access to justice (details of two examples of abusive treatment can be accessed by clicking the second link and following the links held there).

The purpose of posting this was to highlight what seem to be stark inequalities of treatment under the same umbrella of the Human Rights Act.  Lately, I’ve been tweeting such examples to persons who’ve been claiming that the Act is precious to them and that they’re determined to protect it.  I tend to get in there and ask awkward questions.  As a result I’m being blocked by @MarkFergusonUK (editor of LabourList) and ignored by @AdamWagner1 (prominent Human Rights lawyer).  More examples of that here.

When you analyse the @SaveUKjustice response (above), it appears that he’s not followed any links to abuse of disabled people, and seemingly because of this, believes that WirralInItTogether are claiming their human rights have been breached because they’ve been blocked on Twitter by @MarkFergusonUK !

It’s an unfortunate error to make (and probably one that many of us commit on Twitter when we get drawn in on our pet or specialist subjects !)  The desire to want to leap in and fire off an instant reaction without pausing is hard to resist.  I think this may have been what’s happened here, and it’s forgiveable and understandable.

So we responded as follows, reposting the original link to the abuse of disabled people. Nothing was coming back, so we followed up with some background information to assist:

saveUKjusticetweet3

A response did come back, but it quickly became clear he was holding his ground.  He even went on to compound his misunderstanding and the failure to acknowledge it, by accusing me of ‘trolling’…

 saveUKjusticetweet4

This also gave the impression he hadn’t followed the link I’d provided (twice) to…

the 9 years of financial abuse suffered by learning disabled people on Wirral

OR

the violent abuse suffered more recently by the Mainman

– because he was claiming, globally, that the HRA had ‘upheld disability rights’.

The horrific Winterbourne View abuse and a high level intervention followed by a report part authored by Norman Lamb MP had also occurred.  I was now becoming concerned that he didn’t have a clue what he was talking about, so I thought it was time to research @SaveUKjustice and get a bit of background.

Very quickly it became clear that it was run by someone called Patrick Torsney, who appeared to have had a remarkable measure of success with a relatively prominent organisation known as ‘ilegal’.  This is worth googling to see the achievements it has made since its inception.

I now had a bit of a quandary building.  The remarks made by the person on the other end didn’t seem to be emanating from Patrick Torsney.  How could they be?  Was it an intern sitting in on the bank holiday?

But I couldn’t know that without asking the question.  I was also thinking… ‘how could an anonymous person, hiding behind the grand title of ‘@SaveUKjustice’ have the gall to brand somebody who is obviously not anonymous as ‘trolling in the name of disabled peeps’?

So I sent the following tweets:

 saveUKjusticetweet5

Okay, we regret the reference to the ‘little ball’ in the last tweet as it’s derogatory. Although I (Paul Cardin) was a little upset after being unfairly branded as ‘trolling’.

We’d now asked for his name, but as so often happens in these circumstances, the person making the accusations didn’t have the courage to come forward and identify himself.  It seemed it was okay to pour forth with insults, but when challenged, the customary and timeworn option was taken – that of receding back into the shadows…  and safety.

Expecting the worst, we then checked and found we’d been blocked by the following:

Save UK Justice @SaveUKjustice

blocked by save UK justice

Patrick Torsney @ilegal

blocked by ilegal

With both orgs now blocking us, the implication we drew was that yes, this was highly likely to be Patrick who’d been sending the tweets.  We sent the following, just to make our own followers aware of the situation:

saveUKjusticetweet6

If Patrick Torsney ever reads this e.g. if somebody sends him a link to it, he may have second thoughts, start acting in the public interest, and may finally get round to reading what we’ve been involved in locally at Wirral In It Together, and who knows, maybe even apologise for his rash behaviour.

That’s if it was Patrick Torsney.  We may never actually know for certain.

About Wirral In It Together

Campaigner for open government. Wants senior public servants to be honest and courageous. It IS possible!
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8 Responses to We were accused of trolling by Patrick Torsney’s legal site SaveUKjustice

  1. joedd says:

    Brilliant Writing……

  2. joedd says:

    Reblogged this on For Love of the Mainman…… and commented:
    Brilliant Writing – A must read…….

  3. Pingback: We got blocked on Twitter by Patrick Torsney’s legal sites ilegal and SaveUKJustice | For Love of the Mainman……

  4. Bobby 47 says:

    Yes, an excellent piece of work from Paul. Isn’t it an odd society that’s been created? Endless tiers of responsibility are set up and presented to us all so that the weak and the vulnerable can be protected and protocols are put in place to safeguard these much cherished noble ideals and when you simply pop the question, ‘why has this been done and why aren’t you doing anything about it’, you immediately get shoved in the out tray, the too difficult basket and get quickly branded a Troll or worse, a vexcacious individual. Call me a fool with a keyboard but it is an extremely odd way to behave. What’s so very wrong in responding, ‘I honestly didn’t know, if what you say is right then something has gone badly wrong and if you’ll be patient with me I’ll have a look into this and get bloody back to you’.
    Course, it doesn’t bloody happen does it! Every single one of them dives for cover, covers their ears muttering, ‘I didn’t hear that’ and round and bloody round we go, constantly trying to dress up our language in the hope that just one if them will have a nibble, take an interest and bloody do something about it.
    Obsessed with themselves, desperately steering clear of anything resembling a steaming cow pat, they duck dive, call you names and paint a picture that it’s you who’s the problem rather than the original rotten sin that got you going in the first bloody place.
    It’s truly desperately depressing that ‘they’ have evolved in this strange way where reputation management is placed far and above anything else. God help us. We’re bloody doomed!

    • Wirral In It Together says:

      Genuine Evolution will sweep these fools aside in time, but for now we’ve been dragged down a cul-de-sac from which there’s no real escape. Although those abusing the power ( but with the means to change things for the better ) DO have a “choice”, as follows:

      1. Cough up
      2. Cover up

      Because they’re almost to a man and woman grasping, cowardly wasters, option 2 has long become the path most trodden.😨

  5. Alan says:

    I agree with SaveUKJustice. I think you’re just using random isolated cases to justify ending the Human Rights Act for some undisclosed personal (financial) gain and you think people will fall for it. But you’re really transparent I I I have 1 question for you: Which of the following human rights do you disagree with? :

    1. We are all free and equal. We are all born free. We all have our own thoughts and ideas. We should all be treated in the same way.

    2. Don’t discriminate. These rights belong to everybody, whatever our differences.

    3. The right to life. We all have the right to life, and to live in freedom and safety.

    4. No slavery – past and present. Nobody has any right to make us a slave. We cannot make anyone our slave.

    5. No Torture. Nobody has any right to hurt us or to torture us.

    6. We all have the same right to use the law. I am a person just like you!

    7. We are all protected by the law. The law is the same for everyone. It must treat us all fairly.

    8. Fair treatment by fair courts. We can all ask for the law to help us when we are not treated fairly.

    9. No unfair detainment. Nobody has the right to put us in prison without a good reason and keep us there, or to send us away from our country.

    10. The right to trial. If we are put on trial this should be in public. The people who try us should not let anyone tell them what to do.

    11. Innocent until proven guilty. Nobody should be blamed for doing something until it is proven. When people say we did a bad thing we have the right to show it is not true.

    12. The right to privacy. Nobody should try to harm our good name. Nobody has the right to come into our home, open our letters or bother us or our family without a good reason.

    13. Freedom to move. We all have the right to go where we want in our own country and to travel as we wish.

    14. The right to asylum. If we are frightened of being badly treated in our own country, we all have the right to run away to another country to be safe.

    15. The right to a nationality. We all have the right to belong to a country.

    16. Marriage and family. Every grown-up has the right to marry and have a family if they want to. Men and women have the same rights when they are married, and when they are separated.

    17. Your own things. Everyone has the right to own things or share them. Nobody should take our things from us without a good reason.

    18. Freedom of thought. We all have the right to believe in what we want to believe, to have a religion, or to change it if we want.

    19. Free to say what you want. We all have the right to make up our own minds, to think what we like, to say what we think, and to share our ideas with other people.

    20. Meet where you like. We all have the right to meet our friends and to work together in peace to defend our rights. Nobody can make us join a group if we don’t want to.

    21. The right to democracy. We all have the right to take part in the government of our country. Every grown-up should be allowed to choose their own leaders.

    22. The right to social security. We all have the right to affordable housing, medicine, education, and child care, enough money to live on and medical help if we are ill or old.

    23. Workers’ rights. Every grown-up has the right to do a job, to a fair wage for their work, and to join a trade union.

    24. The right to play. We all have the right to rest from work and to relax.

    25. A bed and some food. We all have the right to a good life. Mothers and children, people who are old, unemployed or disabled, and all people have the right to be cared for.

    26. The right to education. Education is a right. Primary school should be free. We should learn about the United Nations and how to get on with others. Our parents can choose what we learn.

    27. Culture and copyright. Copyright is a special law that protects one’s own artistic creations and writings; others cannot make copies without permission. We all have the right to our own way of life and to enjoy the good things that “art,” science and learning bring.

    28. A free and fair world. There must be proper order so we can all enjoy rights and freedoms in our own country and all over the world.

    29. Our responsibilities. We have a duty to other people, and we should protect their rights and freedoms.

    30. Nobody can take away these rights and freedoms from us.

    • Wirral In It Together says:

      Thanks for listing those Alan.

      You’re wrong. I agree with every single one of those human rights, and I’m singing from the same hymn sheet as you.

      It’s bodies like Wirral Council that find these rights a bit of a bind and difficult to deal with because they are a proven corporately bullying organisation (See Martin Smith report) that, like all councils, has a statutory obligation to look out for and maintain such rights for vulnerable persons within their jurisdiction (See Anna Klonowski report which found massive failures in corporate governance, learning disabled abuse over a nine year period, including the theft of £736,756.97 from the bank accounts of vulnerable tenants in supported living establishments… and much more.)

      I’m not sure if you’ve bothered to look into the specific issues (the stuff of legend locally) before leaping, but the hideous detail of these is why I believe scores of vulnerable persons’ human rights were breached over a decade by this council.

      And if I was out for financial gain, and motivated by gathering large piles of cash, I’d possibly train to be a Human Rights lawyer. I certainly wouldn’t be spending my time researching and working on this blog – which examines several areas of life re: Wirral Council, not just human rights.

  6. Gary Joseph Rowlands says:

    Alan clearly didn’t bother reading the material properly although his listing capabilities cannot be faulted.

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